What does the series look like after The Rogue Crew?

[Isaiah]

This is inspired from a post I saw on Reddit the other day, but I was interested in hearing the thoughts of this lovely community.

We're coming up on the 10th year anniversary of the passing away of Brian Jacques, which is potentially 10 more Redwall novels we might have gotten if he'd lived another decade. He seemed to show no signs of wanting to stop even as he aged.

There are a couple ways to take this question. First, we can consider what might be realistic: the number of books might have slowed down (we wouldn't have a full 10 after the Rogue Crew), and the books may have been the fairly standard standalone adventures disconnected from the rest of the chronology that became standard after Taggerung.

Alternatively, we can consider what our dream series of 10 Redwall books looks like. What areas in the history of the universe would you have liked to see a novel dedicated towards? What themes would you have liked to see explored?

In other words, if you were to write another 10 books of the Redwall series, what would the outline look like?

[Crystal M. V. Rosepaw]

Ooooh, this is something I've thought about tons over the years.

I always wanted to go back to some of the areas that only got featured once. Loamhedge got a few visits, but I really wanted to revisit some others; namely ones like Castle Floret or the catacombs under what became Redwall. I know we all love the meme that Jacques was in his element talking about food, but he also gave a lot of life to his locales.

I would have also loved to see places that were referenced actually explored. Like, we know that there's wolves in the far north, and I would have loved to see more about them (actually alive!) and where they lived. (I don't know a plot; maybe there's an illness in Redwall and the Chosen Heroes of that book voyage up north to find a cure.)

Also, call me biased, but I would have really loved to see him eventually incorporate more cultures. Some of the species we have are coded to be from different parts of the UK, and I would have loved to see more introduced from more places. Give me tiny sand cats from far off deserts that are Middle Eastern, give me a sparra-like flocks of New Yorker pigeons, or stories from well traveled merchants about huge ferocious beasts called bears. I would have LOVED that, since it would have made the Redwall world seem even more expansive.

[Riverstream & Riana]

Call me jaded, but after seeing a lot of other folks have their fave childhood books ruined after they discovered they didn't agree with the author on something major or the author did something they found to be offensive... I have recently been kind of glad that I don't ever have to have that moral reckoning with Brian Jacques. I can value his work and not think about whether or not I would have liked him as an adult. *glares menacingly at anyone who is even thinking about ruining this for me* (seriously, please don't.. I have to have something I don't deconstruct)

To answer the question more directly, I agree with Crys that I would've been eager to learn more about the catacombs under Redwall or more exploration of ancient Redwall history.. I feel like we could've learned a lot about the early days of Redwall through a curious recorder, or something like that.

I also really enjoyed any of the books with different settings, such as Rakkety Tam or anything set in the southern lands, so I definitely would have loved to see more exploration on the "edges" of the map.

I would've loved to see the books mature into taking on the some species are inherently good/bad binary in a more nuanced way.. aside from a few "grey" characters we don't get to see that much, but there's a wealth of opportunity there. Rather than it becoming a flaw as the fanbase aged and realized life is not so clear cut, it could have become a way to strengthen the series by adding that complexity in.

I felt like at the end Jacques was kind of getting boxed in to writing books with plots that would stand alone but also didn't contribute tons new to the universe - like they were books that "fit" in the Redwall universe with standard stories, but they weren't growing a lot in any new directions. Just more standard adventures with standard Redwall characters happening at the Abbey at an unspecified period of time in the timeline. All the ideas discussed above would have been ways for him to break out of that pattern.

[Isaiah]

I felt like at the end Jacques was kind of getting boxed in to writing books with plots that would stand alone but also didn't contribute tons new to the universe - like they were books that "fit" in the Redwall universe with standard stories, but they weren't growing a lot in any new directions. Just more standard adventures with standard Redwall characters happening at the Abbey at an unspecified period of time in the timeline. All the ideas discussed above would have been ways for him to break out of that pattern.

I agree with this and at the same time wonder why this was the case. You can argue when exactly the series started becoming more "simple," as Loamhedge and Rakkety Tam still delved into less explored territories of the known universe, but I think most would agree that series became more "standard" after a certain point. Lord Brocktree was the last book to have a specific place in the timeline and filled in a gap in the universe's history. After that, from The Taggerung to The Rogue Crew most of the adventures might focus on one unique thing that makes this standalone adventure an adventure, but for the most part are "adventure of the year" books, with no real connection or overarching building of the universe/characters/themes.

Maybe it was decided to keep the series simpler for an audience of mostly young kids, or maybe Jacques simply ran out of ideas. I do think the series had room to grow more complex. The only grey characters we really get appear in Outcast of Redwall and The Bellmaker, which came out very early in the series' life span. If there had been more appearances of such characters in later books I imagine we might have gotten more exploration of the themes they introduce.

Whatever the reason for the "standardization" of the later books, I certainly would've liked to see a return to some of the more creative and interconnected books of early in the series. Not that the later books aren't creative in their own right, but they don't interest me quite in the same way. I definitely would have liked to see more books traveling backwards in time, similar to Mossflower or Lord Brocktree. I would have been interested in pre-Abbey history as far as what the establishment of Kotir looks like, although I'm not sure that would've necessarily made a good book. A book set in Noonvale could have been interesting. A book centered around the Gousim?

I think the standalone adventure style books still have their place. While I would like to see more chronological elements in the later books and maybe a few direct sequels, I definitely still think the standalone adventure can be a very interesting addition when its not necessarily standard in every respect.

Finally, I remember 11 year old me being quite disappointed that the Rogue Crew wasn't some grand finale to the Redwall series. Obviously, it couldn't have been known that it would be the finale, but it makes me wonder what that would have looked like.

Personally, I would have liked to see some sort of deeper delve into the assumed binary of good and evil of the Redwall universe. And maybe a forced unification or alliance between woodlanders and vermin against a greater threat (what would that be? something magic?). Although, that only really works and still feels like Redwall if there's a slow build up to that sort of complexity in the later books of the series, which there was decidedly not.

[Crystal M. V. Rosepaw]

Seconded (third-ed?) That I would have loved to see more of the good/evil binary explored, but I'm sort of torn about it. On one hand, I really would have loved to see it; surely not every 'vermin' is a traveling cutpurse or solider in a warlord's army, and doubtlessly some exist out there just being ordinary things like farmers or brewers or tailors. (And I think it's obvious that I would have been invested in it with how I've written all my DAB characters somewhere in the middle of that binary, in shades of grey.) But I also think the moral simplicity in canon is part of the charm. You go into a story knowing who to root for because everything is very black and white, like a lot of the old fantasy classics; Redwall was always a series more like Star Wars than Star Trek, and potentially serves as a bit of escapism from the real world where things are more nuanced typically.

Though I do agree that later books felt more like 'the universe is established, create something in the constrains of that universe.' The most similar comparison I can think of, honestly, are the Dungeons and Dragons Adventure Manuals. They can be read/run in any order you like because few hints are given to timing (if Redwall exists, it's after Mossflower, if there are two bells it's after Redwall), characters dint carry over, etc. It becomes easier to place yourself in the shoes of characters if you don't have to worry about continuity, and the lack of it was probably a blessing to him when writing. I would hate to have to write another book in a series that long, with all the little details I would have to keep tabs on like I'm spinning plates.